Weapon playstyles.

Hello, fellow players of Mikes Cops And Robbers!

I might not be the first player to write regarding weapons, but I believe in a server, in which general shootouts are a very common thing, this is super important.
Due to the weapons already being changed and Mike being very open to conversation, I believe, we as a community, can get to a final setting that the majority will enjoy.
So in this topic I won't be saying: "Buff this, buff that" While, yes, I do agree some weapons are too strong and some are super weak, that's not what this topic is about.

This topic is to talk about the two main ways of shootouts that you can have in SAMP. One would be the fuck around method and the other would be more realistic and skill based method.

Fuck around method:
This method is what the server uses currently, since it's the only viable method of playing, otherwise you will lose most fights against anyone who's played the game for over a week.
In fights consisting of the fuck around method, you usually have two or more players engaging in combat for whatever reason, both using weapons that can be held in two hands, such as: Mac-10's, Tec-9's and the Sawn Off shotguns. Whilst this combat does work to kill the enemy, it is by no means super skill based (It can be, but usually ends up not being) since it consists of both players running in circles just holding M1 and trying to aim on their enemy.
Due to how SAMP works sometimes you even have to lag-shoot in front of the player, where they WILL be, not where they ARE.
Example: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l29ZN6-4huI
While at first this seems super skill based, all you need to do is hold your reticle on your enemy. It works almost like pyros in TF2, just hold W and M1.
This method only really allows 3 weapons to be used and those are: tec-9, mac-10, Double Sawn off.
There are minor cases when you would take out a different weapon like the AK or M16, possibly a Combat Shotgun, but since this server uses (I believe) the default run speed, anyone can fully dodge this by just going zig-zag insanely fast.
I believe this combat way is quite aids, since 1v1's are quite fair and if it's a 2v1 you are guaranteed to lose.

"Realistic" (not really) combat:
This is the combat method which usually is in most roleplay servers, whilst I know this server doesn't plan nor' want to be a roleplay server, it can possibly take this general combat method and profit quite well from it.
It also makes the headshot system (which is in this server I believe) very useful.
Pretty much in this system, your fights can happen with any weapon, but do notice that in this system THERE ARE NO TWO HAND HELD WEAPONS, such as, but not limited to: Tec-9's, Sawn-off's, Mac-10's.
For those 3 guns you can limit the skill to only allow 1 gun in 1 hand and none in the other.
So usually when a fight starts, you'd take your main weapons, such as: Deagle, M16, AK, Combat shotgun and try and actually get some cover or try and abuse the right angle (which is tactical and not a bug). Or when engaging in a fight where there is no cover, strafe right and left in hopes to dodge some bullets whilst at the same time trying to headshot the enemy, since that'll give you the maximum damage output you can deal.
This, personally, would be the favorite of mine, since it'll also be easier to balance for Mike . And it'll also make most guns viable, not only 3.
Some example: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wnklc-tKxfs
I'd also advise to possibly increase HS damage a lil' bit.

Pros and Cons:
Fuck around method:
+ Like piss easy
+ People don't need to buy a lot of guns since only like 3 are really used.
+ Has a lot of ammo, so just run around and hold mouse1.
- Mike has already battled kind of against it with the reload addition.
- Hard to balance out
- Makes most of the weapons quite useless for normal to tryhard players.
- Makes group fights very non-interesting since it's either 1v1 or 2v1 just running in circle holding M1.

The more "realistic" method:
+ Easier to balance
+ Would make more weapons viable
+ Due to more weapons being viable it would be another outlet for money. (just a lil' bit, but still helps)
+ It would be a bit more skill based in my opinion, you would have to really aim for the head and try and focus on cover.
+ Group fights would be a bit more interesting, since you can be tactical and aim for one target or aim for multiple, giving tactics a bit of use. (not in all cases obviously)
- Some peeps would be against it, compared to current system it's a bit harder to get use to, since most people prefer to drive 3-4 in a car and just spray anything in miliseconds. (talking about you crew members 😀)
- If players get really good at this, some kids might call them out for hacks.

Open for discussions.


- Solid

do you seriously expect the players to adapt to the 2nd method just because you suggested it?it'll completely ruin the combat mechanics and wont make combat fun, i seriously dont even understand your concern with the current combat mechanics and fyi theres a headshotting system on the server, certain weapons deal amplified damage when you headshot with them.

not to mention the first combatting method is purely skill reliant whereas the 2nd is not as much.

Well, I didn't expect the server just to switch everything over, just because I said so, thus it's called a "suggestion topic" after all.

I do not understand you saying "it'll completely ruin the combat mechanics", because the last thing I checked, there's one if not possibly more suggestions already pending or been reviewed regarding the current combat. There's topics mentioning various things that need buffing and various things that need nerfing, that exactly goes in to my point that THIS exact combat method we have right now, is quite hard to balance, not to mention it doesn't require skill.
As directly said by Mike, the quick reloading with Q and E is a bug, whilst it is widely known, it shouldn't be used, thus the whole reloading system got added, so if you try and switch back to a weapon, it'll force reload on you. Even with this current reload mechanic, combat works in one way, you spam 1-2 times with your sawn off's, then switch off to two hand-held Tec-9's or Mac-10's and proceed to run in a circle to kill your oponent. Whilst, yes, I'll agree there is some skill in aiming this way, the whole fucking around method mostly gains it's popularity in the skill of quickly changing weapons back and forth in order to reload them faster, since in this server that is no longer possible, it's not a part of the method no more.

I'm also aware that there is a headshot mechanic in the server, I'm just saying that currently it's only really being used by people who quick-switch to rifles to try and get a hs off in the middle of the fight, other then that, not really used.

The reason I propose the second method of combat is due to the fact that it'll be a bit more tactical and actually matter what you do, it won't consist anymore of holding M1 and running in a circle. You'd have to check for cover, get some allies and combat won't last a few seconds anymore, since people can't just sprint around you and rape you.

I honestly think the combat mechanics in this game are quite bad. I’m not going to lie I really suck at gunfights in this game. Perhaps it’s just me. I do what I can to balance it out. I’m not going to remove duel-wielded weapons but I might make the damage much less if duel-wielding due to the fact you’re firing twice as many bullets.

Mike wrote: I might make the damage much less if duel-wielding due to the fact you’re firing twice as many bullets.

weapons are nerfed af, combat shotgun is the only weapon that does damage now, new nerf would completetly wipe out useage of other dual wielded weapons. That will force people to use combat shotgun, then good luck busting aimbot users.

what you define as "holding m1 and pointing your reticle at your opponent" i define as good aim which takes a lot of time to achieve and is far beyond skillful compared to the 2nd method of combatting which in itself doesnt look anything but standing still and spamming ak with the spray and pray formula and that aint skillful at all.

nxy wrote:
what you define as "holding m1 and pointing your reticle at your opponent" i define as good aim which takes a lot of time to achieve and is far beyond skillful compared to the 2nd method of combatting which in itself doesnt look anything but standing still and spamming ak with the spray and pray formula and that aint skillful at all.

this method of combatting would

Even in the second method, you still need good aim to hit the headshots and also strafe, not stand still, assuming you have the weapon skill.
If I have the time, I'll try and post some comparison vids.

saz wrote:
weapons are nerfed af, combat shotgun is the only weapon that does damage now, new nerf would completetly wipe out useage of other dual wielded weapons. That will force people to use combat shotgun, then good luck busting aimbot users.

If someone can make a list of weapons that need nerfing and weapons that need buffing I can look into it..

Original combat method of sa-mp should stay, that makes the game unique itself.
Making a combat like in RP, would smoke people out of using guns, you need 0 skill, just aim and hit 5-6 shots.
Original method, your aim has to be steady and precisive constantly, to kill a player, that makes the combat method based on skill not just on luck, cause if you do replicate with RP method, server is going to be full of aimbots.

like seriously why would we even need this method of combatting?no one is complaining about the current combatting system and while yes it does have pros and cons here and there i genuinely think theres no need to change anything as of right now imo, its entirely unneccesary.

saz wrote:
Original combat method of sa-mp should stay, that makes the game unique itself.
Making a combat like in RP, would smoke people out of using guns, you need 0 skill, just aim and hit 5-6 shots.
Original method, your aim has to be steady and precisive constantly, to kill a player, that makes the combat method based on skill not just on luck, cause if you do replicate with RP method, server is going to be full of aimbots.

this is really relevant as well, cases of aimbot would be harder to track down if targets dont move around quickly for you to shoot down implying that the number of cheaters would rise significantly

Solid wrote:
it is by no means super skill based

just cause you got fucked while robbing a bank and you cant seem to bother to learn how you fight properly in this game doesnt mean you need to change the combat system

He's like using aimbot xD