Author Topic: One thing that I dont quite understand  (Read 1481 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Faksy

  • *
  • Posts: 350
  • Country: si
  • Respect: +44/-12
    • View Profile
  • MCNR name: Faksy
  • Discord name: regrat#4467
One thing that I dont quite understand
« on: March 03, 2021, 01:46:19 pm »
So I just hit level 50 today, roll into a cop and notice it's like having this huge crosshair on your forehead giving everyone permission to kill you.
I was constantly being attacked by random people driving by cause I was supposedly trying to ticket or arrest their friend. Or just passing by couple reds.
Now I am confused cause the /dm and rules state contradictory to what the meta of the server is.

I've gathered some enemies over the years and if anyone can claim they're friend of the guy i'm ticketing/arresting it's gonna be a hard time

Offline Matthias

  • Block of Text 2021
  • *
  • Posts: 39
  • Country: gb
  • Respect: +30/-3
  • Gender: Male
  • rawr x3 *pounces u* owo
    • View Profile
  • MCNR name: Matthias
Re: One thing that I dont quite understand
« Reply #1 on: March 03, 2021, 01:57:07 pm »
Check out https://mikescnr.com/forum/index.php/topic,20.0.html

Civilians can team up - when an innocent aims at you / fires at you they will gain a wanted status.
You're allowed to defend yourself.

Wrote an unofficial guide see - https://mikescnr.com/forum/index.php/topic,6760.0.html which should also help you out - though note at this stage it is unofficial and Mike hasn't given feedback on it yet.

Would write more detail but bit busy at the moment. Let me know if you have any questions. I am not staff, however.

Offline Faksy

  • *
  • Posts: 350
  • Country: si
  • Respect: +44/-12
    • View Profile
  • MCNR name: Faksy
  • Discord name: regrat#4467
Re: One thing that I dont quite understand
« Reply #2 on: March 03, 2021, 02:03:05 pm »
It's just that in the few days I've been playing the meta of the server is quite different to what you would expect from rules. For instance it's nothing weird seeing cops just straight attacking arrestable(orange) suspects even though rules dictate otherwise.

Btw yeah I already saw your guide I think it's great, I gotta study it a bit more :)

Offline Greens

  • Busta
  • *
  • Posts: 7
  • Country: us
  • Respect: +1/-0
  • Gender: Male
  • Buster
    • View Profile
  • MCNR name: [77]Greens
  • Discord name: Greens#0558
Re: One thing that I dont quite understand
« Reply #3 on: March 03, 2021, 02:25:01 pm »
I also reached level 50 a few days ago and started playing as a cop. I told people in the chat that I was new to being a cop and that I was only going after tickets because I figured I should start by doing something simple until I learned a bit more about how being a cop works. Most people were very nice and gave me a few tips and payed their tickets but I was also murdered 3 times just trying to give tickets. I also released a guy from jail, then I went outside the PD and I stood AFK for a second because I was eating and the same person I had released from jail killed me outside the PD entrance. As Matthias said, when somebody aims or shoots at you then they get a wanted level, but that also means that they have the advantage of always being able to pull off the first shot before you have time to properly react. Later I was handcuffing somebody and they were able to escape before I could cuff them and they killed me again. I also noticed other cops weren't even bothering with trying to arrest people and they were just flat out killing them because it was safer than trying to arrest them. I know that there's a taser but I haven't tried using it because I very quickly learned my lesson. NEVER BE COP! It really is very discouraging to play as a cop since you are very disadvantaged and you will be getting attacked by anybody who feels like they want to kill you for any reason. Some people in the chat were trying to give me tips and they were telling me that as a cop you should only play in a team or that you should pick your battles carefully. Basically telling me that I need to only try to arrest the easy suspects while the suspects who have weapons are untouchable. I guess that playing as a solo cop is a guarantee death sentence. I'm not the only one who feels this way as I have seen many players get tired of being a cop very quickly and then they go back to being a civilian. As for me, I honestly don't plan on playing as a cop again after my experience with it. I'm not a good DMer so that means I guarantee can't be a cop and even if I could DM I would still be at a massive disadvantage. Other than the cop system, I do very much enjoy this server and community.

Offline Faksy

  • *
  • Posts: 350
  • Country: si
  • Respect: +44/-12
    • View Profile
  • MCNR name: Faksy
  • Discord name: regrat#4467
Re: One thing that I dont quite understand
« Reply #4 on: March 03, 2021, 03:17:51 pm »
I also noticed other cops weren't even bothering with trying to arrest people and they were just flat out killing them because it was safer than trying to arrest them.

This. I love the idea behind the script with cuffing and even escorting suspects to jail for bonus but as things stand now, there's no real practical application for it.

I like how the server encourages teamplay but I think something should be done so solo copping is more viable option or at least you dont just get shot down by anyone who feels like it.

Just feels a bit too "teamdeathmatchy" to me, but if that's what server administration is after, I respect that. Just giving my tree fiddy.

Like, I'm completely fine and will accept the risk of going into bunch of civilians where there is one yellow, but it's another thing when I'm chasing a suspect 1on1 and out of nowhere people come shooting at me. Happened couple of times today.
« Last Edit: March 03, 2021, 03:23:03 pm by Okay »

Offline Matthias

  • Block of Text 2021
  • *
  • Posts: 39
  • Country: gb
  • Respect: +30/-3
  • Gender: Male
  • rawr x3 *pounces u* owo
    • View Profile
  • MCNR name: Matthias
Re: One thing that I dont quite understand
« Reply #5 on: March 03, 2021, 03:38:26 pm »
It's just that in the few days I've been playing the meta of the server is quite different to what you would expect from rules. For instance it's nothing weird seeing cops just straight attacking arrestable(orange) suspects even though rules dictate otherwise.
From my personal experience, you are correct, it isn't unusual to see that.

I put it largely down to an unfamiliarity with the rules and the tendency for less experienced players to follow the examples of the more experienced ones.
I'm optimistic that the culture is shifting in a positive direction though.

Most people were very nice and gave me a few tips and payed their tickets but I was also murdered 3 times just trying to give tickets. I also released a guy from jail, then I went outside the PD and I stood AFK for a second because I was eating and the same person I had released from jail killed me outside the PD entrance. As Matthias said, when somebody aims or shoots at you then they get a wanted level, but that also means that they have the advantage of always being able to pull off the first shot before you have time to properly react. Later I was handcuffing somebody and they were able to escape before I could cuff them and they killed me again. I also noticed other cops weren't even bothering with trying to arrest people and they were just flat out killing them because it was safer than trying to arrest them. I know that there's a taser but I haven't tried using it because I very quickly learned my lesson. NEVER BE COP! It really is very discouraging to play as a cop since you are very disadvantaged and you will be getting attacked by anybody who feels like they want to kill you for any reason. Some people in the chat were trying to give me tips and they were telling me that as a cop you should only play in a team or that you should pick your battles carefully. Basically telling me that I need to only try to arrest the easy suspects while the suspects who have weapons are untouchable. I guess that playing as a solo cop is a guarantee death sentence.

Not having a tazer seems like a fundamental error to me especially if you are dealing with ticketing suspects where it's much easier to get close to them with a tazer ready in-case they try to pull anything funny.
The tazer renders the player helpless and free to cuff and if you are dealing with a single suspect it is game-over for them. They can escape cuffs by resisting arrest but it's not too hard to taze them immediately again.

Operating as a cop is definitely challenging - though for me that makes it all the more gratifying when bringing brains to a situation results in a positive outcome.
It isn't for everyone.

The fundamental goal is to arrest the suspect where it is possible - when engaging it's important to read the situation to know how to respond.
The incentive for orange players NOT to shoot you is that it is easier for you both to do a bribe.

Lone suspects are less dangerous and are more likely to give themselves up and be terrible drivers.
Groups are much more dangerous - in cars they will drive-by you and on-foot an innocent player might wait nearby and ambush you whilst you try to arrest their friend.

Having lots of cops to deal with a suspect will improve your odds substantially but solo-cop is viable if you read the situation. As a general rule it you are unlikely to succeed against a large group (and that is no fault of the server's mechanics).
Personally I dislike combat in SAMP and I have often joked that the only player with a lower K/D ratio than me is the Vault Guard. ;D

Some cops use excessive unjustified lethal force - which is against the rules.
Some people kill cops without a valid reason - which is also against the rules.

This. I love the idea behind the script with cuffing and even escorting suspects to jail for bonus but as things stand now, there's no real practical application for it.

I like how the server encourages teamplay but I think something should be done so solo copping is more viable option or at least you dont just get shot down by anyone who feels like it.

Just feels a bit too "teamdeathmatchy" to me, but if that's what server administration is after, I respect that. Just giving my tree fiddy.
You'll soon learn the people that are most likely to shoot at cops - it is usually one of the regulars. :P

I guess it's possible your experience was different to mine - personally I am more likely to solo-cop or only play with close-friends because other cops have a habit of taking down suspects when it is viable (and sometimes even less risky) to use a tazer/revive in order to get a successful arrest. Sometimes they flagrantly break the rules which is frustrating to be complicit in too.

Right now I think the server mechanics have a good balance - more serious and it'd be too restrictive and boring & less serious and it'd be "GTA SA Police Drive-by Simulator 2021" .

The issues that are being complained about are a part of the server's culture - regulars like to team-up and shoot at cops trying to ticket/arrest them.
In response you can team up with lots of cops and over-run their militia which is a lot of fun to do too.

I couldn't argue that cops are "unpopular" though - it is simply that the ratios vary over time. Sometimes there is only one or two cops online and other times they make up 2/3 of the active players.


Offline Faksy

  • *
  • Posts: 350
  • Country: si
  • Respect: +44/-12
    • View Profile
  • MCNR name: Faksy
  • Discord name: regrat#4467
Re: One thing that I dont quite understand
« Reply #6 on: March 03, 2021, 04:30:50 pm »
Some people kill cops without a valid reason - which is also against the rules.

I'd love for this to be clearer, like what the valid reason is.
Like is this a valid reason, me just passing by https://www.twitch.tv/videos/935196021?t=0h29m19s
or this one, notice how magda_gta is focused on me before i go after ticket, look on map he goes towards my direction at all times https://www.twitch.tv/videos/935272018?t=0h37m16s
this one, idk why he killed me here https://www.twitch.tv/videos/935272018?t=0h46m44s
is this valid reason - https://www.twitch.tv/videos/935272018?t=1h17m0s ?
Though there are some nice people like these two  ;D https://www.twitch.tv/videos/935228852?t=0h45m29s

Now dont get me wrong, I'm loving the server aside from some frustrating experiences, I'm just genuinely curious how stuff works here :)


Offline Matthias

  • Block of Text 2021
  • *
  • Posts: 39
  • Country: gb
  • Respect: +30/-3
  • Gender: Male
  • rawr x3 *pounces u* owo
    • View Profile
  • MCNR name: Matthias
Re: One thing that I dont quite understand
« Reply #7 on: March 03, 2021, 05:23:18 pm »
It sort of depends to a degree on how you interpret the following :

Quote
Taken from https://mikescnr.com/forum/index.php/topic,20.0.html 03.03.2021
Cop Hunting Rule:
killing a cop is not allowed, even if you are most wanted, unless that cop is chasing or attacking you. If a cop is RUNNING AWAY FROM YOU, you should not be attacking them Unless they recently attacked you.
- You may kill them if the oppose threat to you (kill, arrest, chase /etc)
- You may kill them if they are a group and one of them is attacking you
- You may kill them if they get very close to you
- You may kill them if they camp outside the bank or your house

In the first clip you drove an armoured SWAT tank into the middle of most wanted suspects and sat there.
I would say you weren't an active threat but a reasonable one - you could have fired that water-cannon at any time.
My personal view is that if you decide to approach a group of most wanted players that is the expected outcome if you're not fleeing. They likely assume any cops coming near-them are there to engage them lol.

Second clip they're clearly friends / in a group - you're trying to ticket him which is sufficient.
As for magda_gta it doesn't matter that they're innocent, teaming between civilians is allowed, and he was clearly trying to help his friend from the cop trying to taze him.

Third clip same as above - a group assisting each-other.

Fourth clip - you went into a bank that looked like it was in the process of being robbed by a large group of players.
A bit unnecessary to kill you but it is understandable given they don't know the situation outside / you are an immediate threat to them while they are felons / most wanted lol....
You can go to ATMs which are all over the place to deposit - no need to risk your life at the bank.

In all four cases you are a solo-cop dealing with a group - see my previous advice on groups for reference.  8)
« Last Edit: March 03, 2021, 05:42:38 pm by Matthias »

Offline Faksy

  • *
  • Posts: 350
  • Country: si
  • Respect: +44/-12
    • View Profile
  • MCNR name: Faksy
  • Discord name: regrat#4467
Re: One thing that I dont quite understand
« Reply #8 on: March 03, 2021, 05:56:39 pm »
Yeah I think you're right. Just takes a while getting used to it. Like you said it's completely different game with different ratio of cops:civs too I just noticed.